Google
De-Monetizes Video
of ICP Rosewood Q&A on UN
DSG, PyeongChang, So Patreon
By Matthew
Russell Lee, New
Platform, Scope
UNITED NATIONS,
November 15 – With the large
social media platforms like
Google and Facebook vowing to
use algorithms to prevent
terrorist recruitment and for
other purposes, the crudeness
of results, intended or not,
has come to the fore. Now
Google's YouTube is engaged in
systematic financial censoring
of independent videos about
censorship. Like
many
independent
media, Inner
City Press
publishes its
coverage
and associated
commentary
not only on
its website
but on a
number of
third party
platforms like
YouTube,
Twitter,
Facebook,
Scribd
and SoundCloud.
YouTube is
owned by
Google, and
like its
parent allows
publishers to
monetize their
material with
advertisements.
But do YouTube
and Google
behind it
engage in
censorship? As
Inner City
Press ramps up
its fight
against the
eviction of
its shared
office in
the United
Nations while
asking
questions
about UN
corruption, it
has received a
series of
e-mails from
YouTube that
its videos on
these topics
"cannot be
monetized"
with ads. This
now in
mid-November
2017, with the
UN still not
responding to
Inner
City Press'
petitions,
extends to
de-monetizing
videos of
Inner City Press
Q&As with the
UN about the
scandal of UN
Deputy
Secretary General
Amina J.
Mohammed
having signed
thousands of
CITES export
permits for
rosewood
already in
China, some of
it taken illegally
from Cameroon.
Photo here, where
"Not
suitable for
most
advertisers"
is slapped on
"UN
Refuses To
Answer DSG
Rosewood
Racket Qs from
Inner City
Press, On
Bribes,
Cameroon Wood?" - and to "On PyeongChang Olympics, ICP Asks
What If
Missile Test,
South Korea
Takes Over
Briefing Room." And
so, for now,
we've taken
the former to
Patreon.
In October, Google
demonetized
Inner City
Press' Q&A
with
US Ambassador
Nikki
Haley about
Cameroon,
video here,
demonetization
here,
interviews
with people
from Southern
Cameroons,
even footage
from a Town
Hall meeting
by the UN official
who has yet to
respond to
Inner City
Press' petition,
but we're led
to believe
will
imminently,
Alison Smale,
bottom of
photo here.
This is outrageous.
On
August 28,
without even being
notified,
Inner City
Press learned
that its
videos of its
Q&A with
the UN about what the
UN had done to
free Hisham
al-Omeisy in
Yemen, had
been de-monetized by the
ostensibly
liberal
Google and YouTube.
More here.
This is disgusting.
On
August 6,
Inner City
Press received
an email denying
monetization
to interviews
Inner City
Press conducted
with Malaysia's
foreign minister,
and about
French soldiers'
impunity for
abuse in the
Central
African
Republic, and
about
migrants,
ostenisibly
now the UN's
big issue under
Antonio Guterres: "ICP
Asks Malaysia
FM Anifah of
Israel &
French
Sangaris
Dropped from
Report,
Migrants in
Asia."
Not
advertiser
friendly? On
July 17,
Inner
City Press
received an
email denying monetization
to interviews
by Inner City
Press, just
outside the UN
gates,
with activists
opposing
Morocco's crack
down in the
Rif region - "On Morocco's Crackdown in Rif, ICP
Asks UN 15th
Time, Nothing,
Interviews
Outside UN
Gates." Now
here
on Patreon.
Inner City
Press appealed
to Google,
which on July
24 wrote
back: "After
reviewing your
video, we’ve
confirmed that
the content in
your video or
video details
aren’t
advertiser-friendly.
As a result,
your video
can’t be
monetized. 'On
Morocco's
Crackdown in
Rif, ICP Asks
UN 15th Time,
Nothing,
Interviews
Outside UN
Gates.' YouTube
reserves the
right to make
the final
decision about
video
monetization." This
is censorship.
Which
type of
protest
interviews
would Google
allow monetization
of? By which
type of interviewers?
On
July 17,
Google denied
monetization
to Inner City
Press' public
Q&A i the
UN about
the Ng
Lap Seng /
John Ashe UN
bribery
case (as well
as Sri Lanka
and Western
Sahara): "ICP
Asks UN Haq
How Sri Lanka
Troops Vetted,
Of W Sahara
Memo, Burundi
Camp, South
South News."
Explanatory
Periscope
video here.
Also on
July 16, Google
denied
monetization to
a public
Q&A with
the UN
Spokesman
Stephane Dujarric about
why UN Deputy
Secretary
General Amina
J. Mohammed met
with the
Clinton
Foundation's
director of
foreign policy
Ami Desai on
July 14,
and if Haiti
had come
up. Here's
the video
Google denied
monetization
to, while allowing
it for nearly
identical
Q&As on
other topics: "ICP
Asks Why UN
DSG Met
Clinton
Foundation,
Haiti, Libya,
Ng Lap Seng
Case, Then
Genocide
Adviser."
Here
is the Google
/ YouTube
email Inner
City Press
received,
"We didn't
approve your
video(s) for
monetization
because the
content in
your video(s)
or video
details may
not be
advertiser-friendly. This
after Inner
City Press
asked Google (X)'s
Astro Teller
about it, here.
And
while Google
News' revamp
goes out of
its way to
relegate
independent
Inner City
Press to
inclusion on
the front page
as to the Ng
Lap Seng case,
but not many
of its African
stories. It's
disgusting.
On
May 4, Google
issued a
final,
non-appealable
denial on monetization
to a video of a UN
Q&A about
Kurdistan and
Sri Lanka:
"After
reviewing your
video, we’ve
confirmed that
the content in
your video or
video details
aren’t
advertiser-friendly.
As a result,
your video
can’t be
monetized. "At UN on Countering Violent
Extremism, ICP
Asks CTED
& Iraq NGO
of Kurdish
Women
Fighters, Sri
Lanka" YouTube
reserves the
right to make
the final
decision about
video
monetization."
Google also said
this video
couldn't be
monetized: "Inner City Press Asks CPJ To Push
UN for Press
Freedom Rules,
HRW's UN Rep
Dodges on DMCA
Censorship"
- after Google
gave in to a
frivolous
request from a
then-Reuters,
now-HRW
rep who
claimed his
anti-Press
email to the
UN was
copyrighted.
(This Louis
Charbonneau
dodged the
question on
May 3 at the EU
Mission to the UN, here). This is doubly
disgusting:
Google is
denying monetization
to a Q&A
about its own
censorship.
So,
question: does
Google have an
algorithm to
deny
monetization
to independent
content which
criticizes
it?
On
April 23 YouTube
similarly went
back to deny
monetization
to Inner City
Press videos
about Yemen,
Sri Lanka,
Armenia, Darfur, the
Golan Heights,
DRC, Gaza,
Ukraine,
Qatar, UN
censorship.
On April 24,
Google /
YouTube denied
Inner City
Press' appeal
and irrevocably
denied monetization
to these
(compare to longer
list below and
marvel and the
"logic" of this
censorship).
After reviewing
your videos, we’ve confirmed that the content in
your videos or video details aren’t advertiser-friendly.
As a result, your videos can’t be monetized.
- "On Yemen,
ICP Asks UN Spox of Blocking of Medical
Supplies, Who Is Raising to Saudi-Led
Coalition?"
- "On Syria,
UN Calls Missile "Speculative," Prepares An
"Evidence Based Narrative: Video with
Captions"
- "After
UNAMID Covered Up Darfur Rapes, Ladsous
Won't Answer Press Q Why Didn't Say Army
There"
- "ICP Asks
Yemen PR Of Sa'ada Destroyed by Airstrikes
(“Rebuild”), When Reach Sa'ana? (“Few
weeks”),"
- "On Syria,
Reuters' Charbonneau Insists, "I Have the
Mic, Isn't Government to Blame?," Then
Latakia"
- "On Syria,
Ban Ki-moon Summons Press, Then Has Little
To Say, Takes No Questions"
- "UN Won't
Say What Ban Discussed with Kerry or if
Missiles Illegal Sans UNSC, Won't Name DRC
Units"
- "On Luhansk
Bombing, June 2 Ukraine
PR Denies, Then June 4 Tells
ICP of OSCE Web Site Blocked"
- "After
Darfur Rapes Denied by UN, ICP Asks Of Any
New Investigation, Is Told of Call to
Ladsous"
- "ICP Asks
Gordon Brown of Sexual Abuse of CAR Children
by Sangaris Force, & Of S. Sudan"
- "UN's Darfur
Cover Up Report Still Withheld, ICP Asks of
Under-Reporting of Deaths in CAR"
- "On Darfur
Rapes, ICP Asks UN If Ban To Raise Tabit to
Ghandour; Ladsous Met “Nice” with Sudan Dip"
- "In Darfur,
Despite Tabit Rapes Etc, Why is UNAMID
Cutting 770 Posts? ICP Asks, Here's Response"
- "On Gaza,
Feltman Won't Tell ICP If Serry Met Hamas,
Qatar-Funded Private Jet UNdisclosed"
- "On DRC, ICP
Asks Kobler of Flying FDLR Leader, Impunity
for Minova Rapes and General Amisi"
- "On Syria
Chemical Weapons Facilities, ICP asks UN Why
Sole Source Contract, UN Says Ask OPCW"
YouTube
reserves the right to make the final decision
about video monetization.
This
April 23 email
initially
denied
monetization
to:
"As on Syria
UNCA President Pushes for No Fly Zone, UN
Tries to Ban FUNCA, Other Views"
"In Syria,
OPCW Cites Lack of Safety, UN Spox Says "We"
Won't Comment, Sri Lanka Report Denied?"
"On Armenia
Genocide Event, ICP Asks Who Goes for UN:
Silent Geneva Rep, Dieng's "UNrelated” Event"
"On Darfur
Rapes, UNAMID Police Chief Sites “Spoilers” to
ICP, On Abuse in Haiti, No Transparency"
- "In Iraq, UN
Tells ICP Baghdad Is Safe, No Comment on
Myanmar Inter-religious Marriage Ban"
- "On Gaza,
Feltman Won't Tell ICP If Serry Met Hamas,
Qatar-Funded Private Jet UNdisclosed"
- "Ukraine's
Sergeyev Says Journalists Didn't Follow
Rules, Denies Again Luhansk Building Bombing"
- "ICP Asks of
Darfur Rapes & Ladsous Says Reporting
Has To Be What It Is- No Military Minders?"
- "After UN's
Ban says IDF Soldier Captive of Hamas, IDF
Says Killed 1st, No Correction, UN Tells ICP"
- "On S.
Sudan, ICP Asks UN of Closing of Juba
Airport, If Arms Brought In, ENHAS; Col.
Bakosoro"
- "UN Won't
Say What Ban Discussed with Kerry or if
Missiles Illegal Sans UNSC, Won't Name DRC
Units"
- "On Darfur
Rapes & UN Document Showing Army Filmed
Interviews, UN Says It Won't “Comment on
Leaks”"
- "On Sudan,
ICP Asks UN Why Parts of Mission in Darfur
Closing Despite 130,000 UNverified IDPs"
- "On Rwanda
Genocide, ICP Asks UN Why Ladsous Waived
Rights After Minova Rapes & For LRA But
Not FDLR"
- "On Syria,
UN Calls Missile "Speculative," Prepares An
"Evidence Based Narrative: Video with
Captions"
- "On Syria,
UN Won't Answer ICP if Annan in Iran Was
Coordinated, Why Photos Banned: FUNCA"
- "Richard
Falk Says Dexia's Owners Liable for
Settlements in Palestine, ICP Asks Where
& of Regulators"
- "UN To Start
Shooting in DRC in 48 Hours,
Won't Names Units It Supports: #LADSOUS2013"
- "On DRC, ICP
Asks Kobler of Flying FDLR Leader, Impunity
for Minova Rapes and General Amisi"
- "On
Palestine, Ban Ki-moon Dodges on ICC when
ICP Asks, FUNCA Censored From UN Transcript,"
- "ICP Asks
Gordon Brown of Sexual Abuse of CAR Children
by Sangaris Force, & Of S. Sudan"
- "ICP Asked
Palestine's Mansour of US Opposition to
Draft, Mansour Said Abbas & Kerry
Discussed"
- "ICP Asks
Yemen PR Who Invited Sudan Troups Into Aden
(Hadi) and About ICC Indictment (UNanswered)"
- "On Tabit
Rapes in Darfur, Amb Delattre Tells ICP of
SC Statement in Nov 2014, But UNAMID Nov 9"
- "On Gaza,
ICP Asks Serry If He's Leaving Post in
October, & If Board of Inquiry. He: Up
to Ban."
- "On Syria's
Request UN Probe Khan al Assal, UN Says It
Explained, then Re- Explains, Kane Games"
- "At UN,
Herve Ladsous Omits Abyei & Golan,
Questions UNanswered on DR Congo for Months"
- "ICP Asks
Syrian Coalition's Ghadbian of US "Foreign
Mission," Arms. He: Pilot like TOW Missiles"
- "On R2P, ICP
Asks UN's Dieng & Welsh of S Sudan &
Burundi, UN Failure in Sri Lanka and
Critique"
- "Israel PR
Prosor Speaks on #BringBackOurBoys,
Afterward Tells ICP No Draft Press
Statement, Nothing"
- "On Syria,
Ban Ki-moon Summons Press, Then Has Little
To Say, Takes No Questions"
- "On Yemen,
ICP Asks UN If Its Envoy was UNaware of
Houthis Meeting US UK EU in Muscat, Leaked
Email"
- "On Syria
Chemical Weapons Facilities, ICP asks UN Why
Sole Source Contract, UN Says Ask OPCW"
- "On Bombing
of Luhansk Building, UN's Simonovic Tells
ICP His Team Not Expert, Maybe More"
- "In DRC, UN
OKs Jamming M23 Rebel Radio, Silent on Sudan
Hostages and Who's Excluding Press from UNGA"
- "DRC
Tshibanda Tells ICP UN Gave Waiver to Work
With 2 Generals Against LRA - But Not FDLR,
“Ask UN""
- "ICP Asks
Yemen PR Of Sa'ada Destroyed by Airstrikes
(“Rebuild”), When Reach Sa'ana? (“Few
weeks”),"
- "After
Ladsous' Cover Ups in Sudan Like DRC &
Haiti Have NGOs Telling Ban to Fire Him,
UNresponsive"
- "On DRC
& Its Exclusive on GoE Report, ICP Asks
UN if MONUSCO Counts Blind Among Disarmed
FDLR"
- "On Yemen,
ICP Asks UN Spox of Blocking of Medical
Supplies, Who Is Raising to Saudi-Led
Coalition?"
- "On Ukraine,
ICP Asks PR Sergeyev of IMF and Minsk,
Conditions for Recouping Border Control"
- "On Syria,
Lavrov Speaks (Too) Softly, Draft Resolution
to All UNSC Members This Night, Sep 26, 2013"
- "Syria
Meeting at Russian Mission Sept 11 Was
On Chemical Weapons Initiative, Resolution
Not Shown"
- "Ban Ki-moon
Speaks of Shelling of UNRWA Schools, But
Spox Won't Tell ICP If or When Board of
Inquiry"
- "After
Darfur Rapes Denied by UN, ICP Asks Of Any
New Investigation, Is Told of Call to
Ladsous"
- "On Darfur
Rapes, ICP Asks UN If Ban To Raise Tabit to
Ghandour; Ladsous Met “Nice” with Sudan Dip"
- "UN's Darfur
Cover Up Report Still Withheld, ICP Asks of
Under-Reporting of Deaths in CAR"
- "On UN's
“Human Rights Due Diligence Policy,” ICP
Asks Simonovic of DRC, FDLR, South Sudan"
- "ICP Asks
Matthew Rycroft of Leer in South Sudan,
Sudan Troops in Yemen, When UNSC Meets on
Burundi"
- "On
Afghanistan, Kubis Claims UN Impartial,
LOTFA Cleaned, Too Early on SG, Maxwell Case
Closed?"
- "When UN
Claim It Was Banned from Darfur Rape Zone Is
Disputed, Spox Insists UNAMID Is Credible"
- "In Yemen,
ICP Asks UN Spox if Envoy Spoke With Groups
Who Don't Support Hadi, For Pause, Seems Not"
- "For Update
on Accountability for Minova Rapes, UN tells
ICP to "Ask DRC," Dodges on FDLR-DRC Links"
- "Ban Ki-Moon
Gets & Speaks on 2d Syria Chemical
Weapons Report, Declines Q on It & N
Korea Execution"
- "ICP asks
Israel's Prosor of UN's Feltman, & If
New Rapporteur Can Enter; “Meet & Work
Together""
- "On Luhansk
Bombing, June 2 Ukraine
PR Denies, Then June 4 Tells
ICP of OSCE Web Site Blocked"
- "On Syria,
Sigrid Kaag Tells ICP $10M in OPCW, $2M in
UN Trust Fund - But When & Where Report?"
- "On Syria,
UN Tells ICP It Welcomes Evidence and E10,
Narrative Will Include Witness Statements;
DRC"
- "On Gaza,
ICP Asks UN DSG Why No SG Outreach to Hamas,
Citing Qatar-Funded Jet, Not Needed, -DSG"
- "On Ukraine,
UK Lyall Grant calls Simonovic report
"forensic" disproving of Russia claims:
April 16"
- "At UN on
Palestine, Of Settlements & Withheld
Taxes, by InnerCityPress.com"
- "Araud Says
Sale of Warships Continues & On Syria
Draft If US Pilot Downed, He Would Go to ICC"
- "As OSCE
Asks Kyiv to Free Journalists, ICP Asks UN,
Which Has Contacted No One"
- "Of UN's
Report on Its Darfur Cover-Up, UNSC Only
Gets Summary, Press & Public, Mere
Statement"
- "ICP Asks
Palestine's Mansour If Join ICC If No UNSC
Reso; He Says Not Conditional, Wants to Join"
- "As UN Flies
Gov't Officials to Darfur, In DRC Murky on
M23, Nothing on Katanga or Sri Lanka"
- "On Iran,
ICP Asks Shaheed of De-SWIFTing, Impact of
Sanctions and of P5+1 Nuclear Talks"
- "Amnesty
Int'l Says Syria Rebels Shouldn't Be Armed,
Yet, of Golden Rule and Censorship at UN"
- "Of Odessa May 2 Fire,
ICP asks UN's Simonovic About Probe(s),
Journalists Detained by Ukraine"
- "As Syria
Bound Truck Resists Search in Turkey's
Hatay, ICP Asks UN's Amos, Who Talks
Surgical"
- "As UN Says
It Protects DRC Civilians, Accused of
Shooting Two Civilians Itself, Double
Standards"
- "On Syria,
UN Tells ICP Sellstrom's Report on Chemical
Weapons Pushed from Oct to Early Dec, Why?"
- "After
UNAMID Covered Up Darfur Rapes, Ladsous
Won't Answer Press Q Why Didn't Say Army
There"
- "On Syria,
Kaag Re-Pledges Transparency on OPCW
Chemical Weapons Funds, Cites Maritime
Costs,"
- "On Syria,
Reuters' Charbonneau Insists, "I Have the
Mic, Isn't Government to Blame?," Then
Latakia"
- "Four Days:
UN Spox Said Not Aware UN Flew FDLR in DRC,
Never Updated, Won't Say When Knew Had
Misled"
- "In Darfur,
Despite Tabit Rapes Etc, Why is UNAMID
Cutting 770 Posts? ICP Asks, Here's Response"
- "At UN Noon Briefing,
There Are No Answers, On Myanmar & DRC
Army Rapes, Off Stride"
- "On Gaza,
ICP Asks Palestine's Mansour of US Ammo
Transfers to Israel"
- "ICP Asks
Ukraine PR Sergeyev of Grad Rockets by
Donetsk, IMF and Ceasefire Positions"
- "On Ukraine,
UN Spox Says Restoration of State Control
Should Be Peaceful: But, "Surrender or Die?""
- "ICP Asks
Palestine & Jordan of US Opposition to
Draft, Mansour Says Abbas Spoke with Kerry,"
- "On Yemen
& US Drone Strikes, ICP Asks UN If
Houthis Have Consented, Spox Says “Details,”
Ban UNmoved"
- "On Darfur
Rapes, ICP Asks UK Rycroft Of Cover Up as in
CAR; He: UN Reviews May Ensure Follow-Up"
The week
before on
April 17 this list
grew to
include a simple
Q&A with
the UN about
censorship in
Mali, Paul
Biya's cut off
of
the Internet
in Cameroon,
and refugees
in Lebanon,
from Syria.
Inner City
Press uploaded
a video and
nearly immediately
received this:
"Thanks for
submitting
your video(s)
for
monetization.
We didn't
approve your
video(s) for
monetization
because the
content in
your video(s)
or video
details may
not be
advertiser-friendly. 'ICP Asks UN of Mali closing 47 radio
stations,
Cameroon Net
Cut, Syria
refugees at
risk in
Lebanon.'" How can
Google and
YouTube
justify this?
It is driving
content away
from them and to,
for example,
Patreon
(here).
Google
has, on
appeal, said
"After
reviewing your
video, we’ve
confirmed that
the content in
your video or
video details
aren’t
advertiser-friendly.
As a result,
your video
can’t be
monetized. YouTube
reserves the
right to make
the final
decision about
video
monetization."
This final Ban
of monetization
applies
for example
to:
"ICP Asks UN
Counter-Terrorism Center of Boko Haram
Victims, Who Are UNCTC's Non-Saudi Donors?"
"On UN Rapes,
ICP Asks Khare of Light Penalties for
Statutory Rape, Where is #Ladsous?"
This is the
opposite of
what Google
and similar
mega-platforms
claim
to be doing. Facebook, as another
example, talks
about flying Internet-distributing
drones over
Africa. So why
haven't they
done so over
Southern
Cameroons in
the past 55
days? These
platforms
should be
urged on these
issues. On this
censorship of
the Press by
denying or
delaying
monetization,
it seems clear
that someone
or something
has gotten
Google's
YouTube to do
it. We'll have
more on this.
Monetization
was similar
denied for an
Inner City
Press video
about being
ordered out of
the UN Press
Briefing Room
for a "French
only" briefing
by outgoing
French
president
Francois
Hollande,
murkily
arranged by
the UN's still
holding-over
spokesman
Stephane
Dujarric.
On March 4,
monetization
not only of
Q&As involving
Sri Lanka and
Ukraine and
Yemen has been
blocked - now,
even a video
from inside
the UN Press
Briefing Room,
an
exposé of UN censorship. Google's
YouTube
wrote:
"We didn't
approve your
video(s) for
monetization
because the
content in
your video(s)
or video
details may
not be
advertiser-friendly.
"French
Delegation
Tells Press To
Leave UN
Briefing Room
for Hollande,
FUNCA Says No"
This
was the
"precedent"
Dujarric
wanted to
erase, to
claim that
Inner City
Press standing the
principled
stand that
the UN Press
Briefing
Room has to
be for
all, not just
some chosen,
journalists.
"UNcensored
1-4: Evicted
from the UN
For
Investigative
Reporting, by
Matthew
Russell Lee""
The emails
said
“Controversial
or sensitive
subjects and
events,
including
subjects
related to
war, political
conflicts,
natural
disasters and
tragedies,
even if
graphic
imagery is not
shown... We
depend on our
user community
to flag
inappropriate
videos to us
for our
review.”
Even after
appeal, videos
whose titles
including the
word "Nusra"
for example
are deemed
ineligible for
monetization.
This is
no longer a
mis-application
of a terrorism
screen. This is
a pattern at
Google, see
here.
These
are video of
questions and
answers
(sometimes) at
the UN, of
protests in
the streets of
New York, etc.
Inner City
Press has
written,
to
Monetization
then to Press
[at]
YouTube.com:
“The videos
you are saying
are “not
advertiser-friendly”
are videos of
media
questions and
answers with
United Nations
spokespeople
and diplomats.
They are news.
The message
sent yesterday
and today said
“you can
request an
additional
review below”
- this is a
request for
review. Look
at the videos:
they are
Q&As in
the UN Press
Briefing Room.
This is also a
request to be
informed if it
was any
complaint to
YouTube /
Google which
triggered this
denial of
monetization,
and if so if
it came from
the UN or
any[one else.]
I note that
Reuters [now
HRW], got one
of its
anti-Press
emails to the
UN banned from
Google Search
with a frivolous
DMCA filing, here.
Please
confirm
receipt and
review the
above and
restore
monetization,
answering the
question.
Google and
YouTube should
not be
involved in
any form of
censorship,
including the
denial of
monetization
of news
footage."
Still
no substantive
answer. So,
like at the UN
on unilateral
decisions to
target, evict
and restrict
particular
media, and
like some
decisions by Twitter to which we will
next turn,
there is no
appeal. (UN
spokesman
Stephane
Dujarric, who
has bragged
about the UN's
"use" of
YouTube, ran
out when Inner
City Press
asked about
this, here.)
This is
UNacceptable.
We'll have
more on this.
***
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