On
Jerusalem After US Vetoed UNSC
Draft, UNGA Vote Dec 21, 29
Speakers Here
By Matthew
Russell Lee, Photos
UNITED NATIONS,
December 20 -- UN senior
administration officials
confirmed to the Press at 5:30
pm on December 5 that
President Trump would on
December 6 not only recognize
Jerusalem as Israel's capital
but also order the US State
Department to act to move its
embassy there. After that
happened, the US on December
18 vetoed a draft UN Security
Council resolution that sought
to call Trump's decision null
and void. Now a General
Assembly meeting is set for
December 21 on a similar
draft, below, with the same
"null and void" language.
There is much
talk at the UN about the
Administration saying it will
takes names of those who vote
against it, with an eye on
funding. Of course, Saudi
Arabia threatened to cut UN
funding if it remained on the
UN Children and Armed Conflict
annex; countries offer
financial support in exchange
for various votes in the UN,
as for example South Korea did
in promoting Ban Ki-moon for
Secretary General. (The
process continues today).
Here, the day before, is the
General Assembly's speakers'
list: YEMEN
13. LEBANON
(to introduce draft
resolution
14. OMAN
(A/ES-L.10/L.22))
15. CUBA
STATE OF
PALESTINE
16. SUDAN
TURKEY
17. IRAN
(ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF)
H.E. Mr Mevlüt
ÇAVUSOGLU
18. ECUADOR
Minister for Foreign
Affairs
19. MOROCCO
ISRAEL
20. LIBYA
VENEZUELA (BOLIVARIAN
21. SAUDI
ARABIA
REPUBLIC OF)
22. BAHRAIN
(on behalf of the Non-Aligned
23.
LIECHTENSTEIN
Movement
(NAM))
24. UNITED
ARAB EMIRATES
NICARAGUA
25. IRAQ
PAKISTAN
26. ALGERIA
INDONESIA
27. CHINA
MALDIVES
SYRIAN ARAB
REPUBLIC
JORDAN
BANGLADESH
OBSERVERS: HOLY
SEE
SOVEREIGN ORDER OF MALTA
But does the UNGA
have the power to thus
nullify? Ambassador Nikki
Haley, in a speech in the
morning before the veto,
zeroed in on the previous
administration's absention a
year ago, and the "blacklist"
being prepared by the UN in
Geneva. By March, it would
seem, the US may drop out of
the UN Human Rights Council.
UN Secretary General Antonio
Guterres, who took no press
questions when he spoke on
Jerusalem, may try to
forestall that, while wildly
wasting money, Inner City
Press exclusive here.
We'll have more on this - and
on the December 21 move(s) in
the General Assembly, UN
hallway Periscope here.
The GA draft says, like the
one vetoed in the Security
Council, that it "
Affirms that any decisions and
actions which purport to have
altered, [sic] the character,
status or demographic
composition of the Holy City
of Jerusalem have no legal
effect, are null and void and
must be rescinded in
compliance with relevant
resolutions of the Security
Council, and in this regard,
calls upon all States to
refrain from the establishment
of diplomatic missions in the
Holy City of Jerusalem,
pursuant to resolution 478
(1980) of the Security
Council." This summary of
Security Council speeches
before and after the vote:
Egypt (whose state media
Akhbar al Yom, being given
Inner City Press' long time
office, was again not present)
- Jerusalem is one of the
final status issues that must
be settled through negotiation
between the Palestinians and
the Israelis. Any attempt at
changing the facts on the
ground in Jerusalem is
considered one of the illegal,
unilateral measures that will
have no legal impact
whatsoever, since it comes in
violation of international law
and the resolutions of
international legitimacy.
Uruguay complained that there
wasn’t time for negotiations
on the draft resolution before
the vote and said, We reaffirm
the special status of
Jerusalem as a final status
issue. The final status of
Jerusalem still has to be
resolved. The sovereignty and
the limits of Jerusalem have
to be agreed by Israel and
Palestine through
negotiations. Any measure or
action that the parties or
third state would take to
change the status of Jerusalem
will affect the peae process
and the search for a peaceful
solution. After the vote:
France: It is incumbent on
them [the US] to explain the
compatibility of the statement
with the peace process.
Negative affects on the region
caused by the announcement of
6 December.. Senegal: The holy
city is a symbol for the three
monotheistic religions, which
is why we pay tribute to
Jordan…We have to preserve the
international consensus on the
status of Jerusalem. Ethiopia:
We believe it is a final
status issue that must be
resolved between the two
parties. The draft resolution
reaffirms this long-standing
principle by the United
Nations, and that’s why we
supported it. The latest
developments have once again
brought the Is-Pal dispute
back to the fore. It is
important to work towards
easing tensions and restoring
calm. It is vital that parties
tone down their rhetoric.
Above all, removing the
long-standing obstacles which
have hindered progress is
imperative. Russia: This makes
it more difficult to relaunch
peace negotiations. The issue
of the city needs to be
considered on the basis of a
bilateral dialogue, and we cal
on all parties to show
restraint. This methodology
for settlement was approved in
many resolutions by the
Security Council. We continue
hearing that the prospect of
the 2 state solution is being
diluted. At the same time, we
remain committed to the
solution which provides for
the existence of an
independent state of Palestine
with a capital in east
Jerusalem. Sweden: We regret
that the Council was unable to
adopt the resolution before
us. We have recently outlined
the reasons why we disagreed
with the US recognition of
Jerusalem as the capital of
Israel and the plan to move
the US embassy to Jerusalem.
Italy: Italy supported the
reosluion, as it reaffirms
principles already enshrined
in several Security Council
resolutions. We believe that
the status of Jerusalem, as
the future capital of two
states, needs to be negotiated
between Israel and Palestine
within the framework of a
peace process that will
eventually lead to the
establishment of two states
living side by side in peace
and security: Ukraine: The
issue of Jerusalem is a final
status issue that needs to be
resolved through
negotiations.We are convinced
that there is no viable
alternative to the two-state
solution. Given the highly
sensitive nature of the issue
of Jerusallem, we hope that
the current escalation can be
contained and will not get out
of control. China: China voted
in favor. The Palestine issue
is a root cause issue of the
question of peace in the
middle east. Bolivia:
The resolution reaffirmed that
the definitive status of
Jerusalem should be resolved
through negotiations. We call
on the government of the
United States to reconsider
its decision to recognize
Jerusalem as the capital of
Israel and remove its
diplomatic representation from
that city, because it
undermines the possibility of
dialogue between the 2 parties
and makes it more difficult to
reach a solution to that
conflict Japan: Japan supports
a 2 state solution and
believes the final status of
Jerusalem should be resolved
between the 2 parties... Japan
appreciates US President
Trump’s support for a 2 state
solution and notes that the
final status of Jerusalem must
be resolved through
negotiations between Israel
and Palestine. We are
concerned about possibility of
worsening of the environment
surrounding the Middle East
peace process. The continuing
unrest on the ground is
worrisome. Peace can be
achieved only through
negotiations between the
parties." Here was the
Security Council draft, from
Inner City Press: "The
Security Council PP1
Reaffirming its relevant
resolutions, including
resolutions 242 (1967), 252
(1968), 267 (1969), 298 (1971),
338 (1973), 446 (1979), 465
(1980), 476 (1980), 478
(1980), and 2334 (2016), PP2
Guided by the purpose and
principles of the Charter of
the United Nations, and
reaffirming inter alia, the
inadmissibility of the
acquisition of territory by
force, PP3 Bearing in mind the
specific status of the Holy
City of Jerusalem and, in
particular, the need for protection
and preservation of the unique
spiritual, religious and
cultural dimensions of the
City, as foreseen in the
relevant United Nations
resolutions,
PP4 Stressing that Jerusalem
is a final status issue to be
resolved through negotiations
in line with relevant
United Nations resolutions, PP5
Expressing in this regard its
deep regret at recent
decisions concerning the
status of Jerusalem Affirms that
any decisions and
actions which purport
to have altered, [sic]
the character, status
or demographic
composition of the
Holy City of Jerusalem
have no legal effect,
are null and void and
must be rescinded in
compliance with
relevant resolutions
of the Security
Council, and in this
regard, calls upon all
States to refrain from
the establishment of
diplomatic missions in
the Holy City of
Jerusalem, pursuant to
resolution 478 (1980)
of the Security
Council; OP2 Demands
that all States comply
with the Security
Council resolutions
regarding the Holy
City of Jerusalem, and
not to recognize any
actions or measures
contrary to these
resolutons; OP3
Reiterates its call
for the reversal of
the negative trends on
the ground that are
imperiling the
two-State solution and
for the
intensification and
acceleration of
international and
regional efforts and
support aimed at
achieving, without
delay, a
comprehensive, just
and lasting peace in
the Middle East on the
basis of relevant
United Nations
resolutions, the
Madrid terms of
reference, including
the principle of land
for peace, the Arab
Peace Initiative and
the Quarter Roadmap
and an end to the
Israeli occupation
that began in 1967;
OP5 Decided to remain
seized of the matter.” We'll
have more on this.
Back on December 6
in front of the UN
Security Council
chamber Ambassador
Llorenti Soliz of
Council member
Bolivia said that if
Trump makes the
announcement, at 1
pm, he will ask for
an open Security
Council meeting.
Inner City Press
Periscope video here.
When the meeting
happened on December
8, all 15 members
spoke, then Israel,
Palestine and
Jordan; then two
stakeouts at which
no questions were
taken. Palestine's
Mansour spoke of the
need for Security
Council action, but
obviously the US
could and would
block such action.
So here's fragments
of what was said,
highlighted by
Uruguay quoting John
Lennon:
Sweden's Olof
Skoog: We requested this
meeting, along with 7 others
due to the repurcussions of
the statement made by US
president. We clearly disagree
with the capital of Israel as
Jerusalem and the move of the
embassy. It contradicts
international law; Jerusalem
is a final status issue.
Corpus separatum. Resolution
478 Council said making
Jerusalem the capital was a
violation of international
law. All states up to now
abided by the Council’s law.
Last year 2334 Council will
not recognize any changes to
the pre-1967 lines, including
Jerusalem. Jerusalem is a holy
city to the 3 Abrahamic
religions. We need respect and
tolerance to prevail. We
should not forget the strong
ties to Jerusalem of both
Israelis and Palestinians, and
that 40 percent of the
inhabitants of Jerusalem are
Palestinians. There is no
alternative to the 2 state
solution. And there is no Plan
B. [Guterres says that all the
time, just as Ban Ki-moon did.
It must be in the water at the
UN.
Egypt: We are
confronted with a test of the
rule of law. Our effort will
not be crowned with success
unless we work together within
the framework of international
law. Resolution 2334
reaffirmed that the SC does
not recognize any alteration
to the pre-1967 lines,
including Jerusalem.
Resolution 478 called for the
withdrawal of all diplomatic
missions from Jerusalem. Egypt
denounces the US decision to
recognize Jerusalem as the
capital of the state of Israel
and to move its embassy to
Israel. We’d also like to
stress that such unilateral
decisions is a violation of
international legitimacy and
thus it has no legal impact on
the status of Jerusalem, since
it is a city under occupation.
UK
(outgoing Matthew Rycroft) -
We are deeply concerned by
continued developments on the
ground that undermine the
prospects for the 2-state
solution. We will continue to
press the parties to refrain
from actions which make a
viable peace difficult to
achieve. I reaffirm our strong
support for renewed peace
negotiations. We strongly
encourage the US
administration to bring
forward detailed proposals for
an Israeli Palestinian
resolution…we call on all
parties to maintain calm and
work together in a spirir of
commitment to this common
enterprise.
France's
Delattre: The status of
Jerusalem must be determined
by the parties, purusan to the
consensus that has prevailed.
France recognizes no
sovereignty over Jerusalem...
All UN member states who
established diplomatic
missions in Jerusalem must
withdraw them. 2334 was a
reminder that no modification
of the pre-1967 borders will
be acknowledged by the
international community,
including modification to
Jerusalem. Without an
agreement on Jerusalem, there
cannot be any peace agreement.
Given its gravity, its central
position in the ME, its
critical significance and its
role in the collective
imagination, the
Israel-Palestinian conflict
and particularly Jerusalm is
largely galvanizing…it is
crucial not to give any
pretext for any extremist acts
in the region. There is no 2
state solution without an
agreement, among the parties,
on Jerusalem…we hope to bring
the US back into the fold of
the international consensus…
We seek to speak truth by
calling upon them to return to
the negotiation table. There
is no short cut in the path to
peace…at stake is respect for
international law…at stake is
the conservation of the 2
state solution.
Bolivia (the
requester, but not staker-out)
- Bolivia indicates clearly,
and unequivocally, what its
position is. Not only is this
against international law,
this decision is extremely
damaging…this will impact not
only Israeli and Palestinians.
Uruguay
(including John Lennon) -
These are holy sites;
yesterday a communiqué was
issued by my government
affirming our support to
resolution 181 establishing a
Jewish state with Jerusalem as
corpus separatum... It’s been
30 years since John Lennon was
assassinated. One of his most
famous songs was Imagine,
imagining a world where men
could live in peace. John
Lennon was a dreamer, but he’s
not the only one. Italy
(outgoing Cardi) - Our
position remains unchanged…we
believee that the status of
Jerusalem as the future
capital of 2 states needs to
be negotiated between Israel
and Jerusalem. …until that
moment, Italy will maintain
its capital in Tel Aviv. Italy
reiterates its commitment to
working to the aim [of a 2
state solution] and
contributing to the resumption
of a meaningful peace.
US Nikki Haley:
The Jewish people are
patient….but Americans are
less patient. For 22 years
Americans have waited, and
waited. This week Trump
finally made the decison to no
longer deny the will of the
American people. The US
recognizes the obvious that
Jerusalem is the capital of
Israel. The US has not taken a
position on boundaries or
border. Speicifics about
sovereignty over Jerusalem are
still to be decided by
Palestine and Israel…. The US
is not pre determining final
status issues. We support a 2
state solution, of agreed to
by the parties. Israel, like
all nations, has the right to
determine its capital city.
Jerusalem is the home of
Israels parliament, prime
minister, supreme court. It is
simple common sense that
foreign embassies be located
in it…the US took this step in
full knowledge that it will
raise questions and
concerns…peace is advanced,
not set back, when all parties
are honest with each other.
Change is hard. But we should
never doubt what the truth can
do. When we face the truth,
believe in the human spirit
and encourage each other,
peace can prevail. Over many
years, the UN has outrageously
been the world’s foremost
center of opposition to
Israel. The US no longer
stands by when Israel is
unfairly attacked at the UN.
And the US will not be
lectured to by any
country…Israel will never be
bullied into an agreement by
the UN, or by any countries
that have proven their
disregard to the UN. This
conflict is not just about the
past. It must be about future
generations. Palestinian and
Israeli children both deserve
a future of peace. When those
children are grown, they
should look back to the time
when all parties negotiated
for peace. Peace remains
achievable. We must all do our
part.
China: China is
highly concerned at the recent
developments regarding the
status of Jerusalem. Any
action of unilaterally
changing the current status of
Jerusalem will trigger
confrontations and conflict in
the region. Bear in mind the
overall interest of peace and
security in the region…China
has always firmly supported
and promoted the peace process
in the middle east. The 2
state solution is the right
way for the political
settlement of the question of
Palestine. Ethiopia:We are
very concerned by the latest
development surrounding
Jerusale, because …it is bound
to cause damage and undermine
the hope for peace. Jerusalem
is a final status issue that
must be resolved through
direct negotiations by the two
parties. There is only one
viable option, and that is the
two state solution: two states
living side by side in peace
and security.
Kazakhstan: There
is a unity among member states
of the security council; any
unilateral action to change
the status quo is the cause of
great concern. Kazakhstan’s
position remains unchanged:
maintain the status quo.
Russia's
Nebenzia: Washington’s
decision was greeted with
criticism by the Palestinians
and the Arab and Muslim world.
Palestinian factions making up
the PLO and Hamas called for
strikes and protest marches.
In Moscow, the decision was
greeted with serious concern.
We are of the view that a fair
and reliable settlement should
be reached on the basis of
international law, including
the resolutions of the SC and
the GA. We are worried that
the new position announced by
the US risks complicating the
situation in
Palestinian-Israeli relations
and in the region on the
whole. East Jerusalem would
become the future capital of
Palestine and West Jerusalem
would become the capital of
Jerusalem. We confirm our firm
position that there is no
alternative to a 2-state
solution. Efforts to achieve
this goal are worthy of
support. We reiterate our
proposal to hold a summit
between the leaders of
Palestine and Israel. We’ve
already asked the Americans
for an explanation of how they
see the consequences of their
step…we have drawn attention
to the fears…that this might
undermine negotiations on a 2
state solution. All of this
was reflected in the decisions
of the UNGA and UNSC.
Japan,
Bessho: The SC has closely
followed the Palestinian issue
in its monthly meetings.
Japan’s position remains
unchanged: Japan supports a 2
state solution. The final
status of Jerusalem is a part
of a range of issues that
should be resolved on the
basis of negotiations. Trump
reiterated his support for a 2
state solution. Japan also
notes the importance of the
president’s acknowledgment
that the final status and
boundaries must be negotiated
between the 2 parties…Japan is
concerned that the
announcement will lead to a
worsening of the environment
around the peace process.
Japan has consistently
reiterated this position.
Japan is deeply worried about
heightening tension on the
ground. At such times,
violence can easily snowball.
Japan calls upon the parties
to maintain calm and act in
the interest of peace, not
violence. We have seen various
initiatives and proposals to
bring both sides closer and
japan calls on both Israelis
and Palestinians to sincerely
engage. We are committed to
working with our partners to
uphold a two state solution in
which Israel and the future
Palestinian state live side by
side.
Palestine
Mansour: Those who call for
the US to withdraw is illegal,
irresponsible, provocative
decision that has no meaning
except pleasing the illegal
occupier, Israel: I would like
to thank the 14 members of
this Council for their
principled positions on
Jerusalem. We urge the Council
to act quickly in light of the
violations against Jerusalem’s
legal status. The extremely
regrettable announcement by US
president Donald Trump
declaring Jerusalem the
capital of Israel and the
decision to move its
capital…the situation we face
today has been blatantly
instigated by an occupying
power, rather than abiding by
the UNSC’s resolutions. We
have often lamented this
impunity, but no often
enough…the resounding
rejections of this decision by
world leaders is indicative of
the immense concerns…we are
grateful of the strong,
principled positions
expressed. The status of
Jerusalem cannot be
unilaterally altered by any
state. Jerusalem’s
significance to Palestinian
people, Muslims and
Christians, cannot be
over-stated. There can be no
just and lasting solution to
the Palestine question without
a just solution to the
question of Jerusalem. We call
again on the United States to
rescind this decision and
rectify this matter.
Israel,
Danny Danon: This marks a
milestone for Israel, for
peace, and for the world.
Jerusalem has, and always will
be, the capital of Israel, and
the embassy of the US belongs
in Jerusalem. I thank
President Trump, VP Pence, Amb
Haley, and the American
people. 3000 years ago King
David declared Jerusalem the
capital of the Jewish
people. Nearly 70 years
ago this week, shortly after
Israel declared independence,
Ben Gurion said “Jerusalem is
an integral part of Israel and
the historical capital. No UN
vote can alter that fact.”
President Trump’s decision was
so important. The US has the
moral courage to right these
historic wrongs. Middle
Eastern capitals are not known
for tolerance. They are not
known for freedom of religion.
But not in Israel. In
Jerusalem all people practice
their religions freely. We
pledge to safeguard the holy
places of all religions… Every
member of this council must
send a clear message there is
never an excuse for violence.
Violence must never be used as
a threat. Join with our
American friends. Move your
embassies to Israel." By
contrast, this was the
request: "In light of the
statement today by the
President of the United States
regarding the status of
Jerusalem, the delegations of
Bolivia, Egypt, France, Italy,
Senegal, Sweden, the UK, and
Uruguay kindly request the
Presidency to organize an
emergency meeting of the
Council, with a briefing by
the Secretary-General, to be
held in the Chamber before the
end of this week. On behalf of
the delegations of Bolivia,
Egypt, France, Italy, Senegal,
Sweden, the UK, and Uruguay."
The meeting has been set for
December 8, in the late
morning. But Antonio Guterres,
who canceled the UN noon
briefing on December 6 for his
question-less stakeout on the
topic, will NOT be the
briefer. Inner City Press on
December 7 asked Guterres'
Deputy Spokesman Farhaq Haq
why, UN transcript here:
Inner City Press: on
Jerusalem, I wanted to ask
you, because a number of
ambassadors were saying that
they were hoping that the
Secretary-General would be the
briefer. Is there some
reason that it's Mr.
Mladenov and not António
Guterres? Deputy
Spokesman: We feel it's
best at this particular point
in time for Mr. Mladenov, as
the lead expert on the ground,
to provide the details." We'll
have more on this. Egypt was
among the requesters - but
Egyptian state media Akhbar al
Yom to which UN DPI under
Alison Smale has purported
to give Inner City Press' long
time office wasn't present on
December 5, 6 or 7, as Smale
was informed,
and hasn't asked a single
question in two years. After
Trump spoke, Jordan's State
Minister for Media Affairs
Mohammad al-Momani, said that
"'this recognition is legally
invalid as it enshrines the
Israeli occupation of the
eastern part of the city,
which was occupied by Israel
in June 1967,' the minister
said, pointing out that the UN
Security Council resolution
No. 478 doesn't recognize the
Israeli Basic Law on Jerusalem
and calls on countries that
have established embassies in
Jerusalem to close them. He
added that all of Israel's
actions in Jerusalem, which
aim at changing its character
and legal status, including
its declaration as its
capital, are null and void, as
confirmed by relevant UN
Security Council resolutions,
in particular resolutions No.
465, 476 and 478. He indicated
that the Kingdom and Turkey
had agreed to hold an OIC
summit and foreign ministers'
meeting in Istanbul on
Wednesday to discuss the
issue." Earlier at the
stakeout they started setting
up for a belated media
availability by UN Secretary
General Antonio Guterres, less
than an hour after he excluded
the Press from a ceremony
always Open Press in the past,
amid the multiple scandals
already surrounding his
administration. Then just
before noon they canceled the
UN's daily noon press briefing
on all other topics, from
North Korea to Yemen to
Cameroon, in order to promote
Guterres' stakeout at 1:30
pm. But when Guterres
and his entourage - minus
Katrin Hett in North Korea and
Alison Smale God knows where
-- showed up, Spokesman
Dujarric said, "No questions."
This is a new low. Here's
Guterres' statement: "From day
one as Secretary-General of
the United Nations, I have
consistently spoken out
against any unilateral
measures that would jeopardize
the prospect of peace for
Israelis and Palestinians.
Jerusalem is a final status
issue that must be resolved
through direct negotiations
between the two parties on the
basis of the relevant Security
Council and General Assembly
resolutions, taking into
account the legitimate
concerns of both the
Palestinian and the Israeli
sides. I understand the deep
attachment that Jerusalem
holds in the hearts of so many
people. It has been so for
centuries and it will always
be. In this moment of great
anxiety, I want to make it
clear : there is no
alternative to the two-state
solution. There is no Plan B.
It is only by realizing the
vision of two states living
side-by-side in peace,
security and mutual
recognition, with Jerusalem as
the capital of Israel and
Palestine, and all final
status issues resolved
permanently through
negotiations, that the
legitimate aspirations of both
peoples will be
achieved. For my part as
the United Nations
Secretary-General, I will do
everything in my power to
support the Israeli and
Palestinian leaders to return
to meaningful negotiations and
to realize this vision of a
lasting peace for both
people." From the UN's
December 5 noon briefing, by
Guterres' holdover spokesman
Stephane Dujarric: "on
Jerusalem, I mean, like you we
have seen the press
reports. I'm not aware
of any direct communication
between the US and the
Secretariat on this particular
issue here in New York.
We obviously await to see an
official announcement." We'll
see what happens on December
6, after Guterres swears in
his censor in chief Alison
Smale, who has upheld without
even attempting to defend the
nearly two year restrictions
on the investigative Press
which most aggressively covers
the UN, in favor of n0 show,
no question Egypt state media
Akhbar al Yom. The UN is not
only corrupt but also
disgusting. Back on March 22
when Palestine's Permanent
Observer Riyad Mansour came to
the UN Security Council
stakeout after a meeting with
UN Secretary General Antonio
Guterres, he said it was a
good meeting but that it
remains unclear if Guterres'
report on Israeli settlements
on March 24 will be in writing
or merely oral. On the
choreographed withdrawal of
the ESCWA report on the topic,
a question was not answered,
but Mansour said he was going
to meet the Security Council
president but the press could
wait for a read-out in an
hour. Periscope video here.
Some media were blocked from
following Mansour down the
second floor hallway and
complained; for more than a
year, following trying to
cover the UN Ng Lap Seng
bribery scandal in the UN
Press Briefing Room, Inner
City Press has been banned
from that second floor hall,
following or not. This remains
the case in December 2017...
***
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